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I just found something other than MonaVie and Orrin Woodward to occupy Amway attorneys for a while...
The Amway Product Info site does a little dance with illegal disease claims and Nutrilite products...a dance that Amway (or any Network Marketing company) does not want to participate in.
These types of claims are not good for the industry and often lead to companies becoming over-zealous when it comes to controlling information on the Internet. This is one of the reasons why you don't see any MonaVie web sites except those run by their highest level associates.
I set the over/under for the Amway Product Info site to come down at 3 days.
Update: A reader mentioned that the person who authors the AmwayProductInfo.com site may not reside in the U.S. so the claims being made may not be illegal and I should mention that there is a fine line that the site is walking. Having said that, Nutrilite and Amway are based in the U.S. and I suspect that the line the site is walking is not one that Amway wants to walk.
According to a recent post at Orrin Woodward's blog, the TEAM is lowering tool prices by 1/3 on tools related to building MonaVie.
The most telling (to me) is the following...
MonaVie rewards so lucratively in their pay plan that the MonaVie Executive Policy Council thought it was time to start the virtuous cycle we have been talking about. Lower prices leads to a better education of the new person on business building techniques and principles.
You see, I believe that the profit motive in the tools system is a direct result of one of the worst compensation plans in Network Marketing. Quixtar/Amway diamonds work very hard to get to their level of success and it's human nature to want to be rewarded equitably for your labor. I wouldn't be surprised if Orrin made double his Quixtar income with less people doing less volume in his new business. That is not so much a testament to MonaVie (although they are certainly growing!) as it is a condemnation of Quixtar's plan. Orrin could have picked a number of great companies and accomplished the same goal.
If Quixtar truly rewarded their associates in an equitable fashion, there would be no need for the diamonds to replace supplement their income with an unequitable amount of tool money.
Just read this on former Quixtar Executive Diamond and founder of the TEAM, Orrin Woodward's blog:
My letter to Doug Devos clearly explains that over 600,000 people who speak English as a first language signed up into Quixtar in 1999 and 2000. Out of these 600,000 IBO’s (misnomer?) only six achieved Founders Emerald or above by the end of 2004. This is 4 to 5 years and only 1 out of 100,000 achieved $87,000 annual income from the plan with both the husband and wife working exhaustively. Out of those six who achieved Founders Emerald by 2005, five were on the Team – Tim Marks (Founders Diamond), Doug Stroh, Mike Foos, Matt Abraham, Kirk Birtles were all founders emerald or above by the end of 2004. (I believe this is the five.)
If this is not true, Amway's legal team would be all over Woodward, leading me to believe that the statistics are true.
Your thoughts?
Ugh. I can't believe I thought of this April Fools Joke 3 days too late.
Imagine the fun created by an Amway buyout of MonaVie...
On a serious note, I have often thought about why Amway doesn't buy up and coming Network Marketing companies. Tupperware actually owns 8 brands (I think all through acquisition) including BeautiControl and the acquisitions have spurred growth in a number of markets.
Critics often get criticized for being negative or not offering solutions so I thought I would take some time to offer a (partial) solution for Amway/Quixtar in North America.
Here are what I see as the biggest issues with Quixtar/Amway in North America (not in any order):
1. Outdated Compensation
2. Poor Reputation
3. Lack of Product Focus
4. High Prices
Now for my solution:
1. Break up Amway - Quixtar (North America) into four new Network Marketing companies:
This actually helps solve three of the four major issues, lack of product focus, reputation and compensation. Each product focused company could come out with an updated compensation plan with a focus on balance and the best reward strategy for the product line.
It is should be no secret that the fastest growing companies in Network Marketing over the last five years have been single product or narrow product line focused (such as weight loss). Narrowing the product focus strips away confusion and allows the unique products to shine.
The reputation will be helped by the renewed focus on products and less focus on the "2-5 year plan".
2. Reduce prices and get PV/BV back to a reasonable level ($3 to 1PV is not reasonable). The PV/BV situation overlaps with compensation but it is also needs to be mentioned with pricing. You can't drop the prices by 30% and then drop the PV/BV associates with the products by 50% and claim to now magically have competitive pricing.
Just get reasonable here. Mercedes has proven that you don't have to be the cheapest to be successful, but there is a line where the average consumer will say: "I don't care how good you say (the product) is, I'm not paying that much for (fill in the blank - Amway Product).
3. Update the compensation plan for the 21st century. Adding $60 million in new bonuses and then making them twice as hard to achieve is not updating the plan. Add some money for the newest growing associate. The IBOAI propaganda is suggesting that Quixtar/Amway now has the best compensation plan in the industry.
Uh, yeah. If I was driving a car from 1959 and claimed that it got better gas mileage than a 2008 hybrid, you would laugh at me. In the same manner, people that understand compensation plans within the industry are laughing at the IBOAI.
Lastly, this breakup would help address the core of the reputation problem by nullifying the power of the IBOAI, who haven't really represented the newest IBO in decades.
According to this court document, Quixtar's non-compete is ruled "unenforceable".
I picked up this story via a web log called The Quixtar Whistle Blower.
No comment yet from the IBOAI, Amway, Alticor or Quixtar.
I'm no Denny Crane, so I'll ask this as a question, does this ruling allow Quixtar IBOs to leave and build a profitable business with another company if they choose to do so?
The judge basically said that because of the huge geography area, the non-compete can not be enforced.
The Insider/IBOFightBack/Amway Truth spin is that Quixtar is an Internet business and companies have enforced non-compete of this nature over large geography.
However, Quixtar isn't really an Internet business in the sense that IBOFightBack would like you to think. The marketing and sales arm (IBO) of Quixtar has nothing (or very little) to do with the Internet. Quixtar IBOs don't use the Internet for marketing. The Internet is simply an ordering mechanism. The real business happens all across the country in living rooms, dens and hotel conference rooms.
Big loss for Quixtar. Big gain for Quixtar IBOs who are ready to move forward and make an impact in 2008.
Here is my question...
I see a lot of defense of the Quixtar business...if nothing else
compares to it, then why hasn't it grown in North America over the last 5 years?
Direct Sales in the U.S. has doubled from 1996 to 2006.
Quixtar has stagnated around $1 Billion, no
argument here about the magnitude of $1 Billion in sales, but there is ZERO
growth. Why?
Post your answers at: Amway Uncensored
A court injunction doesn't allow Orrin Woodward to do anything for at least another 45 days, but it looks like Orrin will bring on MonaVie as one of his suppliers in the near future.
Just a guess, but I suspect that Orrin is thinking bigger than just MonaVie.
More commentary and analysis to come soon. Off to my son's basketball game!
I sometimes say that Amway/Quixtar arguably has the worst reputation in the Network Marketing industry. When I say that, I am generally speaking about companies that are still in business.
Bill Gouldd's Equinox is a prime example of a company that might have a worse reputation than Amway/Quixtar partially because they were shut down by the FTC and partially because of the owner Bill Gouldd.
Now Bill Gouldd appears to be back and attacking his detractors. This is probably good news for Amway/Quixtar because there is now someone else out there for people to talk about.
Check out Gouldd's new web site here (fur coat, f-bombs and all).
Update: I watched most of the Bill Gouldd video and really only heard one f-bomb, the rest of the video had to do with his current lifestyle, (apparently he has done well since the demise of Equinox) and some new thing that he is keeping secret but will make billions (not MLM).
I have also spoken with a handful of people that I greatly respect in the Network Marketing industry who are familiar with Gouldd. They all say his training is top notch.
I am not an attorney, even though I think it would be fun to play one on Boston Legal, but I think this is pretty big...
It looks like the courts ruled Amway/Quixtar Arbitration "illusory and unenforceable".
In the recent past, if you sued Amway/Quixtar you went to arbitration and the arbiters were actually trained by Amway/Quixtar employees and high level distributor leaders, leaving little hope for a win against the company.
This ruling apparently tosses out arbitration.
More at AmQuix.info
2007 Quixtar Sales Announced...
Sales at Quixtar, its direct-selling arm in the United States, fell slightly but still topped $1 billion for the fifth consecutive year, according to the company.
Quixtar faced a major revolt among its distribution base in 2007 as the company tried to reform business practices and weed out distributors the company said would not agree to its new terms. The dust-up resulted in lawsuits and the resignation of more than 15,000 distributors.
Alticor reiterated its plan to do away with the Quixtar name, saying it would transition back to using the Amway brand by the end of 2009.
The company said 70 percent of its Amway affiliate markets -- 39 of 55 -- posted sales increases during 2007. Alticor said such growth shows it can grow in established as well as emerging markets.
The company said sales were robust in Asia, especially China, where the government has settled regulatory uncertainties and Amway sells through 180 retail stores.
In my last post, I talked about how Orrin Woodward's TEAM would might see great success in a Network Marketing Binary Compensation plan.
However, I should also point out that the TEAM concept (again slightly modified) would work well (perhaps better in the long run) with a Unilevel compensation plan as long as there are some additional depth bonuses. (Univera has this type of plan.)
The Unilevel plan is considered (by many) to be the most fair plan for the average person.
In the case of Univera's compensation, the added depth bonuses (called generational bonus) allows an associate to be paid (2 to 14%) as far down as six diamond level organizations in depth.
Imagine someone from the TEAM who used to spend $300/month to make 100PV, now spending $125/month to make 100PV, with every person (on their team) netting out a larger check bonus check. That is the potential of a new plan for the TEAM.
File this in the MLM Rumor Mill until further notice, but I have heard and noticed some interesting search engine trends that suggest that Larry Winters might be preparing to pack up and leave Quixtar.
Some are speculating that Larry was watching the Orrin Woodward/Team lawsuits to see what happens before he takes his team to another company. The main reasoning behind the possible move is apparently Quixtar's change back to the Amway name.
Again, this is only a rumor at this point, but we have been pretty accurate in terms of Larry Winters in the past when we broke the story about Larry Winters leaving Britt World Wide for his own system, LTD.
Update:
To be more specific, I have noticed that people are finding my web site by searching "Larry Winters Leaving Quixtar". That doesn't mean that Larry Winters is leaving Quixtar, it just means that people are curious about that subject. In no way, shape or form am I reporting that Larry Winters is leaving Quixtar. For all I know people could have Larry Winters confused with Orrin Woodward.
Update 2:
A couple of people seem to be threatening legal action over this post. This is a very simple process. If the rumor is untrue, Larry Winters, or someone that works for Larry Winters can send me an email: mlmblog@mlmblog.net, telling me that the rumor is false. I will immediately update the post to reflect the statement.
Update 3 (final update?):
After getting a couple of additional searches related to "larry winters new mlm", I did some additional investigation and found that Quixtar's IBOAI Board Blog has posted a response to this rumor (would have been neat if they had told me...oh well).
Here is the response:
Online rumors that Double Diamond Larry Winters is discontinuing his Quixtar business are completely false. It's the kind of outlandish thing bloggers write when they have nothing substantive to say.
My response is that I can show proof that people are searching Google for "larry winters new mlm" and I am guessing that some of my readers think that is substantive. Again, I am not saying that Larry Winters is leaving Quixtar (or is it Amway?), just that I noticed search traffic and in that past, search traffic has been fairly accurate.
Quixtar (Amway) appears to be refusing to pay bonuses to some of it's distributors.
Check this out:
November, 29, 2007
Quixtar/Alticore
7575 Fulton St. E
Ada, Mi 49355Re: QBI Bonus and Founders Platinum Bonus
To whom it may concern,
We are writing you today to inquire about our Founders Platinum and QBI bonuses. To date, we have not received either of these bonuses. We have called your company several times to inquire about these bonuses. Each time we have encountered a similar response, “all bonuses affiliated with Team IBO’s are under review”. I didn’t realize the IBO’s affiliated with Team had different qualifications of those not affiliated with Team.
In May of ’07 my husband and I attended your Platinum Conference. We had a wonderful time, and your company laid out the red carpet for us. Your staff and the service went above and beyond to make our stay informative and enjoyable. We were informed there, by one of your staff members, that we were right on track for our QBI and Founders Platinum bonuses. According to our QBI tracking report for August of ’07, we are eligible for that bonus. To the best of my knowledge, 12 qualified months in 1 fiscal year also qualifies us for a Founders Platinum bonus.
We were independent business owners with your company for almost three years. As far as we know, we were business owners in good standing. Therefore, we fail to understand why you are holding our bonuses. As you know, the end of the year is rapidly approaching and we would greatly appreciate a response to this correspondence, in writing, which explains what exactly is being reviewed about our qualifications for these bonuses.
We appreciate your attention to this matter.
Sincerely,
Dominic & Terry Zettel
4093360------------------------------------------------------
(AMQUIX RESPONSE:)
From: Julie.Savara@quixtar.com
To: TNZETTEL@YAHOO.COM
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2007 2:53:46 PM
Subject: QBI BonusQBI money and trips are offered and paid at Quixtar's sole discretion. If you would like to appeal Quixtar's decision not to pay, you may seek conciliation through Quixtar's dispute resolution process.
Julie Savara
Are you serious? Quixtar now pays it's IBO's at their discretion instead of actual qualifications. What the hell? How can any Quixtar IBO feel comfortable with that deal?
Quixtar and it's loyal IBOs are busy spouting off about the $60 million in new bonuses that the company has promised but from the looks of it, they can yank those bonuses out from underneath you at any time.
So much for the "best business opportunity in the world".
I hate to say that I told you so (OK I really like to say it), so, I told you so. I have been talking about Amway/Quixtar product pricing since as a big issue (the biggest issue?) since 2003.
Now the UK authorities are talking about the same issues in this recent article.
(Mark Cunningham, QC, on behalf of John Hutton, the Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform):
Mr Cunningham said that the vast majority of products offered by Amway to its agents were overpriced even before they were expected to add a further 20 to 25 per cent for retail. “The unattractive pricing explains some the graver vices that are at the centre of the winding-up application,” Mr Cunningham said.
Update:
According to former high level Quixtar IBO, Chuck Goetschel's blog, Amway UK has already reduced prices on some products. Here are some examples:
BODY SERIES™ Concentrated Liquid Hand Soap 250 ml
BODY SERIES™ Fresh Scent Deodorant and Anti-Perspirant Spray 200ml/130 g
BODY SERIES™ 3-in-1 Bar Soap 6 bars - 150 g
SA8 SOLUTIONS™ Pre-Wash Spray 400ml
L.O.C. ™ Mini Wipes 4 travel packs each with 24 wipes
GREEN MEADOWS™ Air Freshener 150 ml
PURSUE™ Toilet Bowl Cleaner 750ml
L.O.C. ™ Plus SEE SPRAY Glass Cleaner 500 ml
L.O.C. ™ Plus Soft Cleanser 500 ml
AMWAY™ Wax Furniture Polish 400 ml
BODY SERIES™ Concentrated Liquid Hand Soap Refill 1 Litre
I got a call the other day from a Quixtar (soon to be called Amway again) IBO that was interested in using the Internet to create leads for his business.
Of course most Quixtar IBO's are looking to create business opportunity leads but that is a good way to waste time and money. It's an uphill battle because really, who hasn't heard the 2-5 year financial freedom pitch?
If someone is searching online for a business opportunity, and you mention Amway, you are pretty much done at that point.
But I am always up for a challenge so I wanted to find an angle that would help this young man build his business. Even though I told him that other companies would be easier to build and more lucrative, he was set on Quixtar, so I set out to give him some free advice.
A friend who is well connected to Amway once told me that there are roughly 6 million former Amway/Quixtar IBOs in the U.S. and based on that number, one would assume that a handful of those people liked one or more of the products.
Ah ha! A niche has been found.
Former Amway/Quixtar IBO's that liked a product or two, but their upline was a butt or they moved or for whatever reason, they stopped buying the product.
So here is what I am going to do: I am going to do a free one hour webinar that will show Quixtar IBOs how to build their business on the web by finding a product niche.
The free webinar has a limited capacity so it will be first come first served:
Register here for the free Quixtar Internet Marketing Webinar
The owners of the multilevel marketing company are pouring millions of dollars into a new online store called Fanista (pronounced fa-NEE-sta). The Web site, set to make its public debut this week, will initially sell DVDs and CDs.
In the coming months it plans to add video games, digital downloads and books.
Ada - The United Kingdom is moving ahead with plans to take Amway to court.
The company's blog reports the UK Department for Business Enterprises and Regulatory Reform has decided to take legal action.
British regulators are upset with how some of the companies IBO's have promoted their businesses. The company says Amway has "worked tirelessly to address BERR's complaints and in the process reinvented the UK business almost from the ground up."
Amway has 106 employees in the United Kingdom and 12,000 Business Owners. The company's been doing business in the UK since 1973.
Powered by ScribeFire.
I thought that Amway/Quixtar was moving past their previous disconnect with reality. Maybe not. Based on a report from Mlive, people that tried the Simply Nutrilite products UNIVERSALLY said the prices were too high, but "Amway Officials" said the pricing is competitive...
Tastewise, the juices received fairly high marks, while the various "Food Bars" (not a real appetizing name, is it?) didn't fare as well.
Pricing for the two sampled products, quoted without shipping from the list prices at simplynutrilite.com, was universally derided as too high. Amway officials said the pricing is competitive with other similar products.
My other favorite lines from people who tried the food bars...
• "Chemical-like flavor. I eat cashew bars, I eat Caribou bars, I eat health food, but those are not good."
• "I'm telling you, it left a soapy aftertaste."
I did try one of the food bars myself and I would try the other products and write a review about them if Amway would send me a care package. (What's up with that? I get thousands of readers a day on the subject of Amway/Quixtar/Network Marketing yet no love... = )).
I thought the taste of the food bar was actually above average for healthy type bars.
Nuskin needs to look up a guy by the name of Orrin Woodward who reportedly brought in $3 Million from a 10,000 person for his former Quixtar TEAM.
High level Quixtar distributors have made handsome profits over the years by staging conventions and seminars. These conventions along with sales of CDs, Books, Voicemail and Web Sites have long supplemented the below average Quixtar/Amway compensation plan, allowing the high level distributors to new distributors because of the perception of wealth.
Salt Lake Tribune:
Nu Skin Enterprises Inc.'s third-quarter earnings were hindered by the cost of staging a convention that drew more than 10,000 of its distributors to Salt Lake City in September.
The Provo-based manufacturer and distributor of nutritional and personal-care products said today it earned $13.5 million, or 21 cents per share in the quarter. A year earlier, it earned $13.2 million, or 19 cents per share.
"Earnings per share include approximately 5 cents of net costs associated with the global distributor convention" staged to energize its commission-only sales force and to try to build investor confidence after a disappointing 2006, a company statement said.
I just launched an new and improved Amway Blog and I am looking for someone that would like to blog about the company, products and opportunity.
If you are interested, send me an email at: mlmblog (at) mlmblog.net
Check out the all new Amway Blog at: AmwayBlog.com
This post below comes directly from the Alticor Media Blog. The Alticor folks have been very gracious with allowing me to publish full posts from the site.
You might find it interesting that Alticor, (Amway/Quixtar) has never contacted me about the opinions that I share on the MLM Blog, and I have definitely been pointed at times. I did get a letter once about some pictures that I posted because Alticor felt the pictures were under copyright protection. I removed the pictures and have since only heard from Alticor/Amway/Quixtar in cordial communication.
Yes, we did.
We filed suit this week in Ottawa County, Michigan seeking to learn more about a number of “John Does” who have cropped up online since our dispute with Orrin Woodward and TEAM began.
Because we believe we can prove that some of their sites and posts were engineered or directed by Woodward, TEAM, their lawyers or their PR agency. And that those sites were purposely used to post material that violates a court order.
To us, this is a necessary measure in a commercial dispute. Because we believe the TEAM machine has been fighting dirty, abusing the online discussion and end-running the court.
(It’s also a necessary step in a technical sense – the companies that host these sites will not divulge information without a subpoena. You can’t get a subpoena without going to court. So if you want to demonstrate that Blogger X’s “spontaneous” site is actually part of a planned-and-paid-for strategy of commercial attack… that’s the road you have to go down.)
So we are seeking to support the legal system – and not attack First Amendment speech. Tough line to walk, but we’ll walk it. Because we believe in both principles.
It could very well be that some of these sites truly are spontaneous, just angry citizens independently voicing their opinions without direction from anyone else. We have no problem with those folks. We don’t want their money, we regret wasting their time and we will even offer to reimburse their costs.
There are plenty of individuals out there posting critical comments about our company, on this site and others. We welcome the debate and value their opinions. (Don’t believe that? Scan through the 4,000 comments of all stripes we’ve posted here since August.)
But e-guerrillas who won’t own up to being bought and paid for in a commercial dispute so they can end-run a court of law are another matter. We invite them to come on out – and fight in broad daylight.
This is pretty funny.
The folks over at the Alticor Media Blog have given me permission in the past to fully post information from their blog, so I am going to post the latest Quixtar - Orrin Woodward - TEAM lawsuit update in full as opposed to posting a fair sue portion of the post.
I said it before and I'll say it again. Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady and the TEAM is in over their heads in this deal and because of that these so called leaders are placing the financial future of thousands of TEAM IBO's at risk. The TEAM IBO's will blindly follow and listen to the Woodward/Brady spin, but frankly they would be far better off either staying with Quixtar or quietly leaving to find a better company in the industry.
The post serves as an interesting update from the Quixtar/Amway perspective:
We respect perspectives. But they can’t hide facts.
First, the “new” Texas case mentioned in “Spaghetti.” This was a brand new case, with TEAM as the plaintiffs, attacking from a whole different angle than they did in California case. Dismissed.
The “other” Texas case. Simmons et al v. Quixtar will be heard de novo – “from the start” – by a new judge, though the previous judge recommended a preliminary injunction.
The California case. Still waiting.
The Michigan case: Our preliminary injunction remains in effect, as does the preliminary injunction won by the IBOAI.
The TROs: By our count, TEAM’s class-action spammers filed for 18 restraining orders in nine different states:
- One, the Simmons case, only has the recommendation for a preliminary injunction. But we’ll give them that one for now.
- Seven were denied, withdrawn or have expired.
- Ten have yet to be decided.
We would count that as one win for the spammers, seven losses, and 10 games still being played.
Orrin Woodward’s class-action ace D.J. Poyfair has been seen in courtrooms in Michigan, California and Texas. He has yet to attend a win.
TEAM trends:
- Fewer leaders. We’ve already commented enough on the dwindling number of plaintiffs in the California case. But you may want to read what Fred Harteis has to add to the discussion.
- Less transparency. When we were in Texas this week, in the course of one day we heard about TEAM; Signature Team Management LLC; Woodward International Networking Systems; and – our favorite – Signature Management Team, LLC, D/B/A TEAM, A Nevada Limited Liability Company.
Now, every corporation can get confusing if you sift through enough paperwork, ours certainly included. But in this instance, we don’t like the way Mr. Woodward’s name jumps in and out of the stack, depending on legal and PR needs. Does Orrin Woodward own these companies? Does he run them? Is he a part of them? Yes. No. Maybe so.
- More business. Or maybe less. There’s that line about “we’re going to a million.” And then there’s what TEAM CEO Robert Dickie and COO Thomas Maguire stated in their Texas affidavits about how business is going: “a deluge of product returns;” customers “calling wanting their money back;” “a significant decrease in tool sales;” attendance “has fallen and events have even been canceled.” Dickie and Maguire claim it is because of our actions; we can’t help but wonder whether attacking us as a pyramid and alienating countless former customers has anything to do with it.
Those are the facts, as best as we can gather them. We welcome your perspectives.
Based on the following statement from Fred Harteis, it appears as though Orrin Woodward and the TEAM are not the leaders they suggest they are. How can you be a great leader when you don't have a clue who is standing beside you?
This statement comes from the IBOAI Blog and is attributed to Fred Harteis (you can read the whole statement and a little more background here):
At no time did I authorize Mr. Poyfair or any other attorney to include me as a Plaintiff in the lawsuit. Again, I've never spoken with Mr. Poyfair or any other member of his law firm. At no time did I authorize any other person, including any Plaintiff named in the lawsuit, to include me as a Plaintiff in the lawsuit. Moreover, neither Mr. Poyfair nor any other attorney for Plaintiffs contacted my attorney, Rick Abraham, to seek his authorization to include me in the lawsuit. Mr. Poyfair had met Mr. Abraham one or two months prior to filing the lawsuit and knew without any doubt that Mr. Abraham was my attorney.
Once I discovered my name was included in the lawsuit my attorney immediately contacted Mr. Poyfair and his co-counsel and demanded that I be dismissed from the action. Mr. Poyfair contacted Mr. Abraham and admitted that he had never spoken with me at any time.
I understand Mr. Poyfair has on more than one occasion brazenly suggested that he has me in his "hip pocket." Nothing could be further from the truth. The foregoing facts should dispel any such notion.
First there was the Mighty 11. Eleven high level Quixtar IBO's joined Orrin Woodward to make a stand against the Quixtar tyranny. Then, Fred Harteis said "I was never part if this deal".
Now Don Wilson and Randy Haugen are out as well.
Would you believe that Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady are now leaving the TEAM?
The TEAM is crumbling, in fact, Orrin Woodward doesn't even want to be associated with the TEAM.
What's that leave, like 6 leaders?
Where does that leave TEAM IBO's?
Up a creek holding a non-compete.
P.S. Does TEAM have it's own non-compete agreement?
This will be of interest to my Quixtar/Amway conspiracy people...
WLNS:
The Michigan native who founded private security contractor Blackwater has been invited to testify before Congress.
Representative Henry Waxman is chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. He's invited Blackwater CEO Erik Prince to appear at an October committee hearing.
The company has come under intense scrutiny in the week since 11 Iraqis were killed in a shooting involving Blackwater contractors protecting a U.S. diplomatic convoy in Baghdad.
Prince is a Holland native and former Navy SEAL whose family fortune was made in the auto parts industry. His sister, Betsy DeVos formerly chaired the Michigan Republican Party. She's married to Dick DeVos, the Amway heir who unsuccessfully ran for governor in 2006.
Here is the plain reality of Quixtar. You will spend more money and work significantly harder for less bonus money with Quixtar than many other companies in this industry.
Here are three reasons why:
1. Reputation
2. Compensation
3. Product Pricing
I have been writing professionally about the Network Marketing industry for several years and in that time, I have had the opportunity to look at a lot of companies. So, the following is a listing of companies that a Quixtar IBO could join and see better and faster results than they would see working with Quixtar.
Bottom Line: Same effort = more money.
In no special order...
Isagenix
Xango
Max International
Arbonne
Send Out Cards
Honorable mentions...
USANA
Herbalife
Nuskin/Pharmanex
I found this quote from a former TEAM IBO on one of the forums, interesting stuff given what was being said by Bo Short about Quixtar more than 6 years ago while Woodward was defending the company and saying anything possible to harm Bo Short's credibility:
"Despite my deepest respect for Orrin and Chris, the fact remains that as leaders, they led thousands upon thousands, who trusted them completely, in the wrong direction for years, knowing full well what they were doing was not fully right. And that everyone knew that Quixtar was the wrong partner. "
AND
"If they would have recognized they were going the wrong direction 8 years ago and led their flock beside cool waters rather than over a cliff or into the thicket as they have now, imagine the difference it would have made.
Update: I made a slight change to the post title and content based on the information I received in a comment.
My name is Ty Tribble and I would like to welcome you to the MLM Blog. I launched this site in 2003 as a journal of my thoughts and opinions on Network Marketing.
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The chatter that I am getting from Quixtar IBOs (formerly?) associated with the TEAM is that they are very confused. On one hand the TEAM leadership is telling people to continue with "business as usual" and then on the other hand the same leaders are bashing Quixtar.
What I hate to see is these decisions that can impact a family for decades being made based on the cult-like loyalty to Orrin Woodward. I have heard several different people suggest that TEAM likes to say something along the lines of "discretion is the enemy of duplication". , independent thinking, or the ability to discriminate against bad ideas. In other words following someone to the point where your personal judgment and clear thinking are clouded. That is a scary position to place yourself and your family in.
Hello rock, meet hard place.
I have been saying that Quixtar is a bad business opportunity for nearly 4 years and my friend and business partner, Bo Short has been saying a lot of the same things that Orrin Woodward is now saying for nearly 6 years. The price of Quixtar's products, the compensation plan and the reputation make Quixtar on of the most difficult to build companies in an industry that is difficult to build already.
Then you have the TEAM. Woodward and Co. are no doubt in over their heads at this point. I can guarantee you that they did not expect to rack up three court losses two weeks into this chaos.
Are Woodward and company charismatic leaders? Perhaps.
Are they global business strategists? I'm thinking no.
So, what now?
Now you be loyal to your family and be wise about your financial future.
You and I both know that the concept behind this industry is good and I know that you have the skills to make this business happen. If you would like to speak with m
Game over for TEAM?
A judge has ruled in favor of Quixtar in all three lawsuits, effectively crushing the chances of an easy exit for Orrin Woodward's TEAM and the high level Quixtar leaders that followed him out of the company.
In other words, TEAM is OUT OF BUSINESS. Woodward and company will do whatever they can to hold it all together, including what I saw recently as an obvious and scary ploy to bring TEAM associates together by relating Biblical examples to Orrin Woodward's fight against Quixtar.
Here is a copy of Quixtar's press release:
Complete defeat for Woodward and other terminated TEAM distributors in Quixtar court battle
Continue reading "Orrin Woodward and Team Lose All 3 Lawsuits to Quixtar" »
What do you do when you learn that what you have been promoting isn’t working? Do you simply complain about it? Do you keep telling everyone that the good times are coming? Or, do you do something about it?
Let me complicate it: What if you learn the supporting facts of this business failure after you’ve invested 17 years of your personal life, and your parents have invested over 35 years? What if you find yourself financially dependent upon the business income; the basis of which was built years ago? What do you do? This is the story of where I found myself and why I chose to do what I have done.
Continue reading "Chuck Goetschel Speaks Out About Quixtar, Amway, Stacking and Prices" »
Here is my latest opinion on the Quixtar - Orrin Woodward Suspension - TEAM fiasco.
Quixtar is playing HARDBALL and TEAM is in over their heads. The first round looks to be going to Quixtar and Amway. However, Quixtar and Amway are scaring the hell out of their other groups of IBOs, to the point where people are going to leave.
Quixtar was already a bad opportunity for most people and now there is chaos added on top of the bad opportunity. By the way, a one time influx of $60 million in new bonuses (that most people have no chance at qualifying for) is not an adequate update to one of the worst compensation plans in the industry.
So here is what the average Quixtar IBO now has to worry about:
1. What will happen to my business when they change the name back to Amway?
2. What will happen to my business if my upline pulls a TEAM and decides to start his own deal?
3. Is it worth the time and effort to continue building my business is this state of chaos and craziness?
4. Instead of having to answer "Is this a pyramid or MLM?" questions at your follow ups you will now have to answer, "What's up with the class action lawsuits?".
None of this is good news for a person trying (like hell) to build an income that can make an impact on his or her family.
I just pulled this off of a comment placed on one of the Amway Media Blogs:
In spite of all that, they (Quixtar) notified me at 8:00pm Friday night that unless I contractually promise to never use another TEAM produced BSM, my business will be terminated. And please note that as of two months ago, those very same TEAM BSMs were approved by Quixtar
Update: Here is a copy of the letter. (I have been out of town since last Thursday so I am just getting back in the loop...by the way, big news about where I was, coming soon. Hint.)
Are you wondering if Orrin Woodward's TEAM was guilty of telling The 7 Great Lies of Network Marketing?
Click here for your free 7 Great Lies of Network Marketing Ebook as my gift to you.
This comes from Amway Facts:
Quixtar.com today posted an update (reproduced below) about some changes coming in the near future. In the context of some of TEAM's complaints about wanting price decreases ... well, it's quite interesting reading. In summary -
- one discount available - case purchases - is being removed.
- most products will remain the same price, only a few will increase
- shipping rates will increase!
- the new product lines will be Simply Nutrilite™ foods for people on the go who care about their health and Artistry® Essentials, a natural colour cosmetics line
So, in contrast to TEAM's desire to have prices drop, they're staying the same or going up. TEAM wanted products to compete with WalMart, instead Quixtar is introducing more Nutrilite and Artistry products - premium quality brands.
So Quixtar IBOs are currently able to sell something like 3% of the goods and services that move through the company to actual retail customers, yet the company thinks it is OK to raise prices on some products and shipping and drop case discounts.
How can Quixtar IBOs possibly think that Quixtar is still a good opportunity? Seriously, help me understand. Reputation, Product prices and Compensation are completely stacked against the average IBO.
I spoke with a Platinum on the TEAM yesterday who told me that his income from the TEAM (system income, i.e. books, CDs, etc) was 2/3 of his overall Quixtar income.
That really is a testament to two things:
The 2/3 number is interesting because that is the breakdown that I have been told by a number of Quixtar Diamonds and EDCs describing their income (2/3 System, 1/3 Quixtar)
Leaders on the TEAM will argue that the TEAM system compensation plan actually pays more equitable than other system compensation plans, since a Platinum is earning the same type of breakdown that a Diamond earns.
Of course, this says nothing for the people that are not Platinum...non-platinums are spending way more than they are making on the Top 50 CDs, 2 weekly CDs, the monthly book, etc.
I have also been told that the Top 50 CDs were really pushed at the last TEAM events about a month ago. Now people are sitting on 50 CDs published by leaders that are no longer in the business that they are.
Here is a new report about Fred Harteis. It is apparent that the TEAM is in over their head. Leaders are already splintering off in different directions.
A Lower Paxton Twp. man says his inclusion as a plaintiff in a lawsuit against multilevel marketing firm Quixtar Inc. was "an error," and he has been removed from the legal action.
Fred Harteis, president of Harteis International at 7955 Jonestown Road, said yesterday through a spokeswoman that he remains a distributor for Quixtar, a corporate cousin of the better-known Amway Corp. of Ada, Mich.
The lawsuit contends that Quixtar is an illegal pyramid scheme, violating rules set by the Federal Trade Commission after previous litigation involving Amway.
At this point I would give the upper hand in all of this to Quixtar, but I know for a fact that Quixtar's recent actions have people in other lines of sponsorship and affiliation very nervous. One of the things that people crave is security and when the company "fires" a group of IBO leaders, leaders in other lines have no choice but to consider the day that "the Firm" will fire them.
Grand Rapids, MI–-August 15, 2007-- A Temporary Restraining Order Pending Arbitration was sought by the Independent Business Owners Association International (IBOAI) and granted on August 14, 2007 in a Michigan district court, preventing former IBOAI directors Orrin Woodward, Billy Florence, Don Wilson, Randy Haugen, Chris Brady and Chuck Goetschel from continuing to engage in breach of their fiduciary duty, breach of contract and violation of the Michigan Uniform Trade Secrets Act.
The IBOAI presented evidence to the Court that Woodward, Florence, Wilson, Haugen, Brady and Goetschel, whose businesses were recently terminated by Quixtar (see http://tinyurl.com/2tbbyw), had already disclosed “confidential information and trade secrets which the Defendants could only have learned as a result of their membership and activities on the IBOAI Board.”
The Court concluded, in its Temporary Restraining Order, that “the actions of the Defendants will result in immediate and irreparable harm to the Plaintiff (and its members)” and ordered Defendants, within five business days of being served, to “return to the Plaintiff or its counsel all of the Confidential Information in their possession, whether in hard copy form, electronically, or otherwise.”
The Independent Business Owners Association International, http://www.iboai.com, is the trade association for hundreds of thousands of Independent Business Owners (IBOs) powered by Quixtar.
Here is a note that someone sent me via the "Email the Author" link at the bottom of my posts:
Dear Mr. Payne:
Where do I go from here? I want to build my Quixtar business and not be a member of TEAM. What is my next step with your company? Please let me know who to contact for information to build my IBO.
Respectfully:
Brian (I have the last name and will give it to Quixtar if they contact me)
I have a question for Mr. Payne and the Quixtar Crew...
How are you going to mentor folks that are looking for this type of help?
David (the qualified Emerald):
First, Can we just save the 12 months or so and start calling it Amway, because this is what this is. That is our exciting opportunity!
As a qualified Emerald I have been told that I will make $150,000 if I can hold it together for two years. Why two year instead of one you may ask? I did. Because there is no way on earth I can take my people ( of which 95% have never been in Amway ) put them in Amway, teach them to sell products extremely difficult to sell, and keep my business together. Even if I could hold it together, there is more. I must be accredited, have a certain amount of width, keep 4000pv outside my emeraldship, sell a certain amount of volume, etc.etc.etc.
In my opinion, of the 60 million in "new money", 30, 40, maybe 50% max will ever be paid out. And if it goes to anyone who speaks English, it will be because they were qualified Diamonds and are going backwards
If you plan on staying with this corporation for the long haul, I recommend taking some classes. Spanish, Korean, Indian, or Chinese
Here is the confirmation about Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady's termination from Quixtar:
To Team affiliated IBOs
What Team has taught you regarding business building may put you at legal and regulatory risk – but we can help
We are in an exciting period in the history of this business. We are making unprecedented investments to make your businesses better – more than $60 million in new money in Quixtar Business Incentives, launch of training to help make IBOs more successful, and exciting new product and category launches. Overall, the Company is spending more than $200 million in product development, brand building, training and compensation enhancements to make this business bigger and more successful than ever.
We also are taking steps to address issues that have plagued our business and hampered our success, which is why we are contacting you today.
After working with Team training organization founders, Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady, on issues related to the teaching by the organization on positioning of the business as the Team opportunity, the practice of “stacking,” or inappropriate depth-building, the use of unauthorized business support materials, and because they told Company executives that they intend to begin soliciting IBOs to join their new competing MLM, the Company has terminated Woodward and Brady’s Quixtar businesses. These issues put the Company and IBOs at serious and immediate risk of legal and regulatory actions and needed to cease immediately. And, we should note that no IBO has left Amway or Quixtar and successfully launched a competing business. Moreover, they, together with other Team, Legacy and Team 5K IBOs plan to file a class action lawsuit in Federal Court against Quixtar.
Quixtar recently provided an opportunity for Woodward and Brady to work with the Company to cure their contract breaches, but they were unwilling to even listen to the plan. The Company now finds Woodward and Brady to be in default of their agreement with the Company and, as a result, their businesses were terminated.
Quixtar acknowledges that the vast majority of IBOs affiliated with Team have conducted their businesses as taught by the Team organization. As a result, there are Team-related IBOs who do not have an accurate understanding of the importance of positioning the business properly with prospects and building depth within the Rules. We can help you through that.
Quixtar remains committed to the support of all IBOs and will work with those who agree to abide by the Company’s rules and maintain high ethical standards. That includes all Team-affiliated IBOs who wish to continue building their Quixtar businesses in compliance with the rules and by correcting positioning and stacking behaviors.
We hope you accept our invitation to remain a valued and productive member of the Quixtar business. We will be following up with more information soon and encourage you to call your Quixtar Sales Advisor with any questions.
Sincerely,
Jim Payne
Executive Vice President and Managing Director
Quixtar Inc.
I'll say that this is rumor mill material until we get confirmation from the folks involved but it looks like Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady of "The Team" have been terminated from Quixtar.
It also looks like Randy Haugen has resigned.
Read the full story at The Truth About Amway site.
We actually predicted this would happen in a June 26th, 2007 post here at the MLM Blog.
See how we roll?
